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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 71. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ClearSkies on January 5, 2006, at 16:35:16
@$#&!!!!
Argh!! How words trip us up! I am so so sorry, Larry.
ClearSkies
Posted by jamestheyonger on January 5, 2006, at 17:04:10
In reply to Lar's block, posted by ClearSkies on January 5, 2006, at 16:35:16
How much longer do we have to go through the cycles of manipulation and false threats of harm ?Too bad Lar let his buttons get pushed.
Posted by alexandra_k on January 5, 2006, at 18:49:32
In reply to Re: Lar's block, posted by jamestheyonger on January 5, 2006, at 17:04:10
hey.
i'd just like to say...
kind of as a friendly warning...
that i anticipate you will either get a warning or a blocking for your post...
sometimes...
it can help matters...
if you can try and see WHY that might be the case...
and get in a genuine apology before admin hit the boards...
Posted by JenStar on January 5, 2006, at 20:01:11
In reply to Lar's block, posted by ClearSkies on January 5, 2006, at 16:35:16
Larry, I'm sorry you got blocked. I for one really appreciate the time and effort you spend here trying to connect and help others. Your care and kindness are noted!
It IS a shame that certain words/phrases, and the usage thereof, can get us into block trouble, when we're really only trying to help.
Please come back when your block is up! We will miss you.
JenStar
Posted by Voce on January 5, 2006, at 20:54:13
In reply to Lar's block, posted by ClearSkies on January 5, 2006, at 16:35:16
Larry,
I'm sorry.
When I read your post I crossed my fingers for you.
It didn't work.
You are a kind person.
I miss you.
I hope you come back.
Voce
Posted by Phillipa on January 5, 2006, at 21:02:28
In reply to sigh, posted by Voce on January 5, 2006, at 20:54:13
Ditto. Lar miss you! Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by alexandra_k on January 5, 2006, at 21:33:17
In reply to Lar's block, posted by ClearSkies on January 5, 2006, at 16:35:16
((((Larry))))
I hope you are okay...
And I hope this doesn't lead to more bad feelings between us.I am sorry you got blocked.
And I know you will be hurting right now.
And I hate it when you are hurting and I wish you didn't have to hurt and I'd stop it if I could...But I can't.
And I know that you were trying to help Deneb
And I know you put a lot of time and energy and effort into trying to help her.
And I know you did this at a time when you were struggling yourself.And while all of that is true...
At the very same time it is true that...I thought you were going to get blocked for that.
Like last time you got blocked.
I thought you were going to get blocked for that too.And I understand the reasons for the block...
And I agree with the block...Though that can be true at the very same time as my wishing that you didn't feel hurt and my wishing that you weren't blocked.
And I really hope this doesn't lead to more bad feelings between us.
Posted by Jakeman on January 5, 2006, at 21:51:42
In reply to Lar's block, posted by ClearSkies on January 5, 2006, at 16:35:16
> @$#&!!!!
>
> Argh!! How words trip us up! I am so so sorry, Larry.
> ClearSkiesLar,
I'm surprised that your're blocked again. I've never seen you as a mean sprited person. I have trouble figuring out what's going on here.
warm regards ~Jake
Posted by alexandra_k on January 5, 2006, at 22:00:56
In reply to Re: Lar's block, posted by Jakeman on January 5, 2006, at 21:51:42
posters don't get blocked because they are 'mean spirited people' they get blocked because they posted something uncivil...
Posted by James K on January 5, 2006, at 22:05:03
In reply to Lar's block, posted by ClearSkies on January 5, 2006, at 16:35:16
I'm new around here so I don't know about past histories. I've read the civility clause, and I'm going to read it again regularly till i've got it down.
I would like to say that Larry if you're reading, and I'm not sure I would be, please come back when you can. In the short time I've been here I've come to depend on you to bring the Knowledge.
And to administration, or Dr. Bob, if there is any precedent or room for leniency I encourage to consider it. I understand the need for the rules and wouldn't presume to tell you how to run your site. I just feel this poster is important to me and 6 weeks is a long time.
Thank you for listening,
James K
Posted by NikkiT2 on January 6, 2006, at 0:45:12
In reply to Lar's block, posted by ClearSkies on January 5, 2006, at 16:35:16
Oh.. Larry..
I had to stay out of that post.. those posts.. I now I couldn't be civil.
Hang in there..
Nikki x
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 6, 2006, at 3:02:23
In reply to Re: Lar's block, posted by jamestheyonger on January 5, 2006, at 17:04:10
> How much longer do we have to go through the cycles of manipulation and false threats of harm ?
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down. I've asked you to be civil before, so now I'm going to block you from posting for a week.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by spriggy on January 6, 2006, at 6:18:07
In reply to Re: blocked for week » jamestheyonger, posted by Dr. Bob on January 6, 2006, at 3:02:23
Posted by wildcard on January 6, 2006, at 10:14:00
In reply to Lar's block, posted by ClearSkies on January 5, 2006, at 16:35:16
Yeah, know how you feel.
Posted by wildcard on January 6, 2006, at 16:29:29
In reply to Re: Lar's block, posted by Jakeman on January 5, 2006, at 21:51:42
I see what you were trying to say...
Posted by Declan on January 6, 2006, at 18:54:46
In reply to Re: Lar's block, posted by alexandra_k on January 5, 2006, at 21:33:17
Something is wrong with the system when speaking uncomfortable truth is blocked like this. I realise of course that we need civility guidelines, and rules are of their nature bureaucratic. But all things considered, it just doesn't seem right.
Declan
Posted by wildcard on January 6, 2006, at 18:56:51
In reply to Re: Lar's block, posted by Declan on January 6, 2006, at 18:54:46
Posted by zeugma on January 6, 2006, at 20:11:43
In reply to Re: Lar's block, posted by Declan on January 6, 2006, at 18:54:46
Something is wrong with the system when speaking uncomfortable truth is blocked like this.>>
it's perfectly consistent with the history of this place. when truth and civility clash, civility wins.
-z
Posted by Jakeman on January 6, 2006, at 20:14:31
In reply to Re: Lar's block » Jakeman, posted by wildcard on January 6, 2006, at 16:29:29
Posted by Jakeman on January 6, 2006, at 20:18:27
In reply to Re: Lar's block, posted by Declan on January 6, 2006, at 18:54:46
Posted by alexandra_k on January 6, 2006, at 21:13:15
In reply to Declan » Declan, posted by zeugma on January 6, 2006, at 20:11:43
> speaking uncomfortable truth is blocked
speaking uncomfortable truth?
or
offering one (judgemental) interpretation out of frustration?
Posted by zeugma on January 6, 2006, at 22:31:37
In reply to Re: Declan, posted by alexandra_k on January 6, 2006, at 21:13:15
it's a matter of judgement. whether what larry said was true. it seemed to me (and for this i will get blocked, but no matter) that they were trying to manipulate each other. i believe deneb was trying to get larry to help her. larry tried to get her to help herself.i don't like to manipulate people. i do it, in the course of my job, and i stay up too late feeling terrible about it. no matter that the manipulations i engage in are pettier, more ignoble than the ones we are discussing. my own conscience is wracked. if we pretend that 'manipulative' is value neutral (like say, orange) then i hate manipulativeness the way i hate orange- just an unreasoning aversion to it. i hate it more in myself than others. i don't know why that is. a quirk.
i think sometimes the only manipulations i engage in are those for my personal gain. if i knew how to persuade someone from jumping off a building, i would probably save myself the trouble and walk away. and we are all irritated by do-gooders.
and i don't like to manipulate others. and i understand why manipulating another can maake the other physically sick. that is my reaction to being manipulated. and to manipulating others. that's why i don't do it, unless it benefits me and isn't too much trouble. for this my conscience keeps me up too late.
time for bed.
-z
Posted by alexandra_k on January 6, 2006, at 23:15:47
In reply to Re: Declan » alexandra_k, posted by zeugma on January 6, 2006, at 22:31:37
hmm.
i'm going on a dictionary hunt...
1 : to treat or operate with the hands or by mechanical means especially in a skillful manner
thats where Linehan emphasises that 'manipulation' is a SKILLFUL thing to do (and people learn skills of successfully manipulating their environment in skills training)
2 a : to manage or utilize skillfully
ditto
b : to control or play upon by artful, unfair, or insidious means especially to one's own advantage
hmm. malevolent intent...
3 : to change by artful or unfair means so as to serve one's purpose
hmm. malevolent intent again...
> it's a matter of judgement. whether what larry said was true. it seemed to me (and for this i will get blocked, but no matter) that they were trying to manipulate each other.in the skillful sense or in the malevolent sense?
i don't think you have bad intentions. bad desires. or that you would treat someone else unfairly in order to further your own ends :-(
and i think... it is judgemental to say that someone is doing this... and that... sometimes we can be our own worst enemy with attributing malevolent intent to ourself :-(
> i think sometimes the only manipulations i engage in are those for my personal gain.
:-(
that doesn't sound like the z i know...> and i don't like to manipulate others. and i understand why manipulating another can maake the other physically sick. that is my reaction to being manipulated. and to manipulating others. that's why i don't do it, unless it benefits me and isn't too much trouble. for this my conscience keeps me up too late.
is it...
about objectification?
its okay to manipulate the environment or inanimate objects...
but dehumanising to manipulate another person?
Posted by Tabitha on January 7, 2006, at 10:13:40
In reply to Lar's block, posted by ClearSkies on January 5, 2006, at 16:35:16
Wouldn't it be nice if Dr. Bob had just stepped in and said something like "Can we not use words like 'manipulate', 'lie', and 'game' here? It tends to sound accusatory. Thanks."
I think that might have gotten the point across without all the upset to Larry, Deneb, and everyone else.
Posted by Sarah T. on January 7, 2006, at 12:08:22
In reply to Re: Lar's block, posted by Tabitha on January 7, 2006, at 10:13:40
What synonyms for "manipulate," "lie," and "game" would you use?
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