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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 26 to 50 of 102. Go back in thread:
Posted by mair on November 8, 2004, at 17:49:17
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, you consider this thread civil? » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 15:54:31
I always concern myself with how people wandering onto this site might react to what they read.
Bear in mind that all the political handwringing and bantering is being conducted by the people who's candidate(s) LOST. We're the minority; we've essentially been declared irrelevant by the press, and the rest of the country. I'm upset because I see my way of life being threatened in a pretty substantial way. Everything I read about the glee with which Christian advocacy groups are viewing the possibility of 3 or 4 Supreme Court appointments scares me to death. I could accept losing tons easier if I had a centrist president. But we don't; we have a fiercely partisan president which is why we seem to be such a fiercely divided country, and which is why you do see so much handwringing.
I know all this cuts 2 ways and I appreciate the extent to which you've attempted to understand the views of those of us who are upset, and I particularly appreciate the care you've taken to try to explain to us a different way of looking at things. It displays nothing but an abundance of intelligence and tact, both traits that seem to have deserted me.
However (and I guess this is really my point) I think wanderers to this site are far more likely to get totally befuddled and turned off by the unrelenting discussions on the Admin Board about the fine line permutations of civility, and about the overly involved attempts to come up with pointless rules which in my view (and only in mine) have very little to do with common sense and consideration for others and everything to do with trying to accommodate one poster's unique way of engaging with other posters.
I call it rule by ambush. Many otherwise very responsible and caring people don't have a clue that they've violated a rule until they've been issued a PBC. And our Moderator seems to have absolutely no clue how devastating it can be to be told that you've acted in an uncivil manner or, as Nikki noted, to have your post brought to the attention of the Moderator so every word can be parsed for an unintended meaning which might offend another.
Mair
Posted by fayeroe on November 8, 2004, at 18:04:29
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, you consider this thread civil? » Dinah, posted by mair on November 8, 2004, at 17:49:17
Thank you, Mair....you stated it so much better than I can. And I'm talking about politics and Administration. Thank you!!!
Posted by Toph on November 8, 2004, at 18:35:11
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, you consider this thread civil? » AuntieMel, posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 15:47:57
Dinah, I hope I can ask this in a way that it does not sound negative, because I do not intend to criticize, rather I'm really interested in your answer. You seem (along with others) to be extremely invested in civility here on PB. I recognize that it keeps this site safe for vulnerable people, and I appreciate that aspect having been on other vicious websites. Is there something else besides your protection of PB at play? Sometimes you seem like my older brother who acted parental when my parents were gone. I love my brother, but I'd have preferred that he conspired with the rest of us kids to engage in mischief instead.
-Toph
Posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 19:18:36
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, you consider this thread civil? » Dinah, posted by Toph on November 8, 2004, at 18:35:11
And this isn't even on my list of self improvements.
Posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 19:21:45
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, you consider this thread civil? » Dinah, posted by TofuEmmy on November 8, 2004, at 17:26:41
> Making fun of majority "ruling party" groups is a bit different than, for instance, making a racist joke.
While I understand that argument in terms of hiring and admission policy, I must say I don't find it convincing in terms of politeness and mutual regard.
Posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 19:22:30
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, you consider this thread civil? » Dinah, posted by Sad Panda on November 8, 2004, at 8:44:01
Posted by Toph on November 8, 2004, at 19:40:42
In reply to I am who I am. » Toph, posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 19:18:36
> And this isn't even on my list of self improvements.
I thought I asked what your motivations for being so invested in civility here, not that you should improve anything. You express yourself well. You are who you are and I have appreciated all of your conversations with me. Sorry I asked a personal question.
Posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 19:51:27
In reply to Re: I am who I am., posted by Toph on November 8, 2004, at 19:40:42
I'm sorry. I concentrated on the part about your brother. I was generally appalled at "mischief making" among youngsters my age (my friends generally exerted positive peer influence). Especially when the mischief involved hurting others, as I all too commonly found it did as a child. I am vastly heartened by the greater kindness and tolerance I see among my son's friends.
I just care passionately about things like this, that's all. So does my son. You might call it civility, I think of it as something completely different than mere civility rules, although I generally refer to it as civility in keeping with the wording of this site. I don't think I have the words for it.
Posted by Sad Panda on November 8, 2004, at 20:12:20
In reply to No (nm) » Sad Panda, posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 19:22:30
I have great difficulty with the concept that people whos political leanings are pro-war also have feelings that are easily hurt with mere words.
Cheers,
Paul.
Posted by Toph on November 8, 2004, at 20:14:09
In reply to Re: I am who I am. » Toph, posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 19:51:27
No need to apologize, the brother reference was sort of a message that you be less concerned about something you obviously care a great deal about. I remember a few times you have expressed some concern for Bob when he is under a barrage from disgruntled Babblers. He never seems to share much. I appreciate that you have.
Posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 20:14:26
In reply to Re: No, posted by Sad Panda on November 8, 2004, at 20:12:20
Posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 20:15:48
In reply to Re: I See (nm) » Sad Panda, posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 20:14:26
Do Sad Panda's words clarify anything for anyone?
Posted by yoshimi on November 8, 2004, at 20:35:46
In reply to Do others now see?, posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 20:15:48
Dinah,
I have utmost respect for you. I wish that the political statements didnt cause you pain.
Pauls statement does resonate with me though.
I am angry afraid and in shock over the election.I can't remember any other terrible thing in my lifetime which will have such longterm and far reaching catastrophic effects on the entire world.
While I wish you werent hurt over our expressions of our anger, I do feel that I HAVE to express my feelings as uncomfortable as that may be for some.
all the Best
Yoshimi
Posted by fayeroe on November 8, 2004, at 20:45:17
In reply to Re: Do others now see? » Dinah, posted by yoshimi on November 8, 2004, at 20:35:46
I understand your feelings. I hope you're able to understand mine. I am appalled at what will likely happen in the next four years to our country.
Posted by fayeroe on November 8, 2004, at 20:56:15
In reply to Re: Do others now see? » yoshimi, posted by fayeroe on November 8, 2004, at 20:45:17
Posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 21:15:41
In reply to Re: Do others now see? » Dinah, posted by yoshimi on November 8, 2004, at 20:35:46
How can you have the utmost respect for me? Do you have the utmost respect for a war lover with no feelings to be hurt by mere words?
Posted by Sad Panda on November 8, 2004, at 21:28:18
In reply to Re: Do others now see? » yoshimi, posted by fayeroe on November 8, 2004, at 20:45:17
> I understand your feelings. I hope you're able to understand mine. I am appalled at what will likely happen in the next four years to our country.
>
>I, and about 5 billion others on the planet, are more appalled at what your country will do to other peoples countries during the next 4 years.
Bring back Bill Clinton! :)
Cheers,
Paul.
Posted by Sad Panda on November 8, 2004, at 21:30:51
In reply to Re: I See (nm) » Sad Panda, posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 20:14:26
Posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 21:36:19
In reply to Re: Do others now see? » yoshimi, posted by fayeroe on November 8, 2004, at 20:45:17
I hope that I have never conveyed that I do not understand how those who feel as many people on this site feel. I do.
But unless you feel that those who made a different choice in the voting booth were being disrespectful to you, objectifying you, leaping to unpleasant conclusions about who you were and what you believe, not to mention your worth as a human being and entitlement to basic human courtesy, then I don't think we're talking about the same thing at all.
If you do think that those who made a different choice in the voting booth were thinking those things, I can assure you that in my case it isn't true at all. I didn't make any assumptions about those who voted differently from me other than that they had a different idea about what was best for the country as a whole.
Posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 21:37:49
In reply to What do you see? (nm) » Dinah, posted by Sad Panda on November 8, 2004, at 21:30:51
And 51% of American voters.
Posted by Sad Panda on November 8, 2004, at 21:58:14
In reply to Re: Do others now see? » fayeroe, posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 21:36:19
>
> If you do think that those who made a different choice in the voting booth were thinking those things, I can assure you that in my case it isn't true at all.
>
>I'd really like to know what you were thinking about then. If it wasn't a pro-war feeling, then what was it? Was it the morals thing, ie, being anti-homosexual, or was it the tax cuts for the richest individuals & corportaions that really grabbed your vote?
Cheers,
Paul.
Posted by yoshimi on November 8, 2004, at 21:59:06
In reply to Re: Do others now see? » yoshimi, posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 21:15:41
Dinah
I respect you because I know that you have a good heart. I respect you because I respect many of your actions. I see you talk about where you are helping people and taking care of people and doing things that gain my respect. Lots of reasons.
I do not think of you as a war lover. I feel that maybe you are feeling that the feeligns i have towards our present administration are directed at you. THey are not. I am disappointed that so many people voted for Bush.
And I am very afraid for what will happen.I feel a lot of very strong feelings about this election. They feelings dont have anything to do with you. I know that many moderates voted for Bush. I dont hate them or feel anything towards them really except disappointment at this ONE
choice they made.Dinah you are a wonderful person. Im mostly a lurker nowadays, but i read a lot and I have read and posted here for years. I KNOW you aer a wonderful person. And Yes i do respect you.
Yoshimi
Posted by yoshimi on November 8, 2004, at 22:01:37
In reply to Re: Do others now see? » Dinah, posted by Sad Panda on November 8, 2004, at 21:58:14
on that Diebold (*funny name eh?) machine:
"tap tap hello...Is this thing really on?"
Posted by mair on November 8, 2004, at 22:04:29
In reply to Re: No, posted by Sad Panda on November 8, 2004, at 20:12:20
...to attach our government's policies to any individual voter. I do not assume that supporters of President Bush are war lovers, and I certainly don't claim to be standing on higher moral ground on account of my anti-war sentiments. If anything I'm offended by what I perceive to be the sanctimony of the Christian Right - the inference that supporters of George Bush are more moral, or that their values are truer. It would be pretty hypocritical for me to make the same claims for myself.
Dinah's right - in the end we all vote based on what we think is best for our country - sadly, I just think there is such a huge divide between the conclusions drawn by those who voted for Mr. Bush and those who voted for Mr. Kerry.
Posted by Sad Panda on November 8, 2004, at 22:06:10
In reply to I see what you think of me. » Sad Panda, posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 21:37:49
> And 51% of American voters.
>It's not that I don't like you, it's just that I feel you are being misled. Hilter was extremely popular in Germany before WW2, but I am sure that the majority of Germans would not have voted for him had they known what he ended up doing. It was the middle class that got him elected too.
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