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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 11 to 35 of 102. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 8:04:43
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, you consider this thread civil? » Dinah, posted by SLS on November 8, 2004, at 7:58:54
I accept your apology, Scott.
It's just that all of this hurts me more than a bit, even from people who have long been friends.
I can only imagine how hurt the people who stumble across this site for the first time and find themselves being spoken of this way must feel.
Posted by Sad Panda on November 8, 2004, at 8:44:01
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, you consider this thread civil?, posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 7:46:03
> This is not a place I want to be anymore.
>
> I think I'll spend some time with people who judge others by more than a line on their voter registration cards. My mother is the only republican I've heard speak this way in person, even amongst other republicans and even after the Clinton election.
>
> GG, you think this is funny?
>
> Scott, you think I'm what...?
>
> I've been respectful enough of others not to tout my politics on this site. But I have enough self respect not to be spoken about in this way.
>
> Dr. Bob, shame on you for allowing this.
>
>Hi Dinah,
I don't understand which part of this thread you are getting upset about, can you point it out please? :/
Cheers,
Paul.
Posted by AuntieMel on November 8, 2004, at 10:08:02
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, you consider this thread civil?, posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 7:46:03
I have to admit I thought there were a couple of chuckles in this thread - from a word play point of view, not a political one.
But a lot of the stuff on social is anything but social (in my opinion.) It seems to me to just continue (politely?) on with the venom from all sides during the campaign.
One of the lessons of sportmanship is that, while being a good loser is very important, being a gracious winner is more so. The pundits in the media don't seem to have learned either one, and seeing so much disagreement on babble just stirs it up for me.
I'm laying low a lot myself these days.
Posted by Toph on November 8, 2004, at 10:42:26
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, you consider this thread civil?, posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 7:46:03
Dinah, I am a passionate Democrat, but my disagreement is with Republican leadership priorities and agenda, not with most Republicans. I'm sorry if any of the Democratic bonding here, and subsequent grieving has hurt you personally. Not all the wonderful flavors in a kitchen go well together. Open political posting during an election is a recipe for disaster on a site like this. For the most strident among us we should consider:
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.
-Bertrand Russell, philosopher, mathematician, and author (1872-1970)-Toph
Posted by Toph on November 8, 2004, at 11:20:46
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, you consider this thread civil?, posted by Toph on November 8, 2004, at 10:42:26
Not all the wonderful flavors in a kitchen go well together.
-Toph, social worker, philosopher, PsychoBabbler
Not all the beautiful clothes in the closet go well together.
-Toph, philosopher, wearer of plaid shirts
Not all the fragrant perfumes in the vanity go well together.
-Toph, philosopher, wearer of Burberry Cologne
Could I hear a little finger clicking please?
Posted by gardenergirl on November 8, 2004, at 11:55:57
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, you consider this thread civil?, posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 7:46:03
> This is not a place I want to be anymore.
>
> I think I'll spend some time with people who judge others by more than a line on their voter registration cards. ...
> GG, you think this is funny?Dinah,
I'm sorry you were hurt and/or perhaps angered(?) by this thread and by my response to it. Like Auntie Mel (if I am interpreting her post correctly), I was amused by the word play on the concept of "positive". The actual content of what Paul posted was much less a factor. I suppose, however, that my feelings of sadness and hopelessness about the election results left me primed to laugh at something political. But I can honestly say that I never felt like I was laughing *at* Republicans, but rather was laughing *with* Paul, albeit a bit sadly.Dinah, I sincerely hope that you accept my apology and consider replying to my posts again. I've always valued your input, and I certainly noticed the void.
gg
Posted by JenStar on November 8, 2004, at 12:43:55
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, you consider this thread civil?, posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 7:46:03
Dinah,
please come back. Babble is just not the same without you. I don't know if you realize this, but to me (and probably many other posters!) you provide a certain spark that makes Babble exceptionally cool.I'm sorry if any of my comments about the election were upsetting. I WAS upset by the election (being a Democrat.) Feeling powerless and small and angry makes me, and many others on the losing side, feel like lashing out. Because it's hard to direct the anger, it often comes out looking like an attack on Republicans.
But really, I don't want to do that. I love the fact that (apart from election time!) Babble transcends the differences between politics, religion, race, color, gender and all other divides.
Please come back. The political talk is dying down. Please give Babble a chance to be good to you again! :)
take care,
JenStar
Posted by gardenergirl on November 8, 2004, at 13:24:30
In reply to please come back, Dinah! :) » Dinah, posted by JenStar on November 8, 2004, at 12:43:55
The horse is out of the barn, so to speak, but perhaps this points to the need for another board? I know religion and politics are touchy dinner table subjects. We do have the faith board (and I agree with the distinction between religion and faith, but anyway), how about a politics or current social issues board?
gg
Posted by JenStar on November 8, 2004, at 15:11:25
In reply to Another board?, posted by gardenergirl on November 8, 2004, at 13:24:30
I think it's a good idea. We'd probably need somewhat different rules for that board, though -- to allow for personal opinion and arguments regarding politics, esp. b/c those topics can inspire heated conversation.
To me, a politics board would HAVE to be a "argument" board...because you really can't discuss politics w/out arguing! Granted, we could do it in a constructive, non-personal way, but the rules about civility might need to be different for a politics board to be an effective way to sound off or share thoughts.
What do you think about rules for such a board?
JenStar
Posted by gardenergirl on November 8, 2004, at 15:23:35
In reply to Re: Another board? » gardenergirl, posted by JenStar on November 8, 2004, at 15:11:25
I think that if it winds up like the rules for the faith board, with the caveat that no one can possible feel put down, then it would be a busy board for Bob. I have to admit, I didn't think about the rules when suggesting the board.
Hmmm, I'd like to see it as something where you can post your own personal truths in regards to politics, but this counntry is so polarized, that certainly would lead to others' getting angry if not feeling put down.
gg
Posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 15:39:17
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, you consider this thread civil? » Dinah, posted by gardenergirl on November 8, 2004, at 11:55:57
I haven't been boycotting your posts, gg. I wouldn't do that. I've been sick with a cold and whatever else is ailing me, and busy with my parents, and more pleasantly with the new pups.
Yes, of course I accept your apology.
I almost never get too angry about things until Dr. Bob gives them a tacit seal of approval. And I just couldn't understand why this got that tacit seal. No one would have considered any of this funny if African Americans or Jews had been the subject of the humor. So it leaves me perplexed that it is considered ok when it's about republicans.
And I suppose this is just the straw that broke this camel's back after a couple of weeks of trying hard to be calm and rational.
But I never did stop answering your posts, gg.
Posted by gardenergirl on November 8, 2004, at 15:44:31
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, you consider this thread civil? » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 15:39:17
Thanks for your reply, Dinah. I did realize that you have been quite busy and under the weather. Perhaps what I noticed was just coincidence.
And your point about the content being about minorities instead of republicans is well taken.
Feel better,
gg
Posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 15:47:57
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, you consider this thread civil? » Dinah, posted by AuntieMel on November 8, 2004, at 10:08:02
I'm not sure that being a gracious winner has much to do with this, as I don't really feel like a winner. Well, not true. Two local candidates that I wanted to win did. But that's not involved in this discussion.
I don't even really identify all that strongly with the Republican party.
I just don't like this sort of thing. I really don't. I'd feel the same way if it was anti-democrat sentiment being expressed. I just don't understand why people can't agree to disagree without the other person being a bad guy. I don't think 49% OR 51% of the American people are stupid, bad, evil, bloodthirsty, or anything else. I would never ever dream of labelling an entire group of people like that. And I think my record backs me up on that.
Posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 15:54:31
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, you consider this thread civil? » Dinah, posted by gardenergirl on November 8, 2004, at 15:44:31
I assure you, gg, that whatever you may have noticed is just coincidence. Unless you've noticed that I haven't been replying to long posts or ones that involve reading. I tried to look at a few links and stopped a few sentences in.
I certainly harbor no ill feelings toward you, and in fact to harbor quite a few positive ones. That is unchanged.
It's just the political stuff that has me distressed. And not just for me, but for anyone who might stumble across this site and leave because of it.
Posted by TofuEmmy on November 8, 2004, at 17:26:41
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, you consider this thread civil? » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 15:39:17
Well......I gotta disagree a bit here.
"No one would have considered any of this funny if African Americans or Jews had been the subject of the humor. So it leaves me perplexed that it is considered ok when it's about republicans."
There is some difference to me, in that the balance of power between minority groups and majority groups does change the context of the conversation. Making fun of majority "ruling party" groups is a bit different than, for instance, making a racist joke.
Regardless, I am sorry that anyone on the board felt personally insulted by this conversation. I can surely see how that is possible. I also hope that it's understandable that Democrats, especially those who suffer from depression to begin with, are doing everything they can right now to cheer each other up. Sometimes I think we forget that others are reading this stuff too! Thank you for the reminder.
emmy
Posted by mair on November 8, 2004, at 17:49:17
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, you consider this thread civil? » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 15:54:31
I always concern myself with how people wandering onto this site might react to what they read.
Bear in mind that all the political handwringing and bantering is being conducted by the people who's candidate(s) LOST. We're the minority; we've essentially been declared irrelevant by the press, and the rest of the country. I'm upset because I see my way of life being threatened in a pretty substantial way. Everything I read about the glee with which Christian advocacy groups are viewing the possibility of 3 or 4 Supreme Court appointments scares me to death. I could accept losing tons easier if I had a centrist president. But we don't; we have a fiercely partisan president which is why we seem to be such a fiercely divided country, and which is why you do see so much handwringing.
I know all this cuts 2 ways and I appreciate the extent to which you've attempted to understand the views of those of us who are upset, and I particularly appreciate the care you've taken to try to explain to us a different way of looking at things. It displays nothing but an abundance of intelligence and tact, both traits that seem to have deserted me.
However (and I guess this is really my point) I think wanderers to this site are far more likely to get totally befuddled and turned off by the unrelenting discussions on the Admin Board about the fine line permutations of civility, and about the overly involved attempts to come up with pointless rules which in my view (and only in mine) have very little to do with common sense and consideration for others and everything to do with trying to accommodate one poster's unique way of engaging with other posters.
I call it rule by ambush. Many otherwise very responsible and caring people don't have a clue that they've violated a rule until they've been issued a PBC. And our Moderator seems to have absolutely no clue how devastating it can be to be told that you've acted in an uncivil manner or, as Nikki noted, to have your post brought to the attention of the Moderator so every word can be parsed for an unintended meaning which might offend another.
Mair
Posted by fayeroe on November 8, 2004, at 18:04:29
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, you consider this thread civil? » Dinah, posted by mair on November 8, 2004, at 17:49:17
Thank you, Mair....you stated it so much better than I can. And I'm talking about politics and Administration. Thank you!!!
Posted by Toph on November 8, 2004, at 18:35:11
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, you consider this thread civil? » AuntieMel, posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 15:47:57
Dinah, I hope I can ask this in a way that it does not sound negative, because I do not intend to criticize, rather I'm really interested in your answer. You seem (along with others) to be extremely invested in civility here on PB. I recognize that it keeps this site safe for vulnerable people, and I appreciate that aspect having been on other vicious websites. Is there something else besides your protection of PB at play? Sometimes you seem like my older brother who acted parental when my parents were gone. I love my brother, but I'd have preferred that he conspired with the rest of us kids to engage in mischief instead.
-Toph
Posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 19:18:36
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, you consider this thread civil? » Dinah, posted by Toph on November 8, 2004, at 18:35:11
And this isn't even on my list of self improvements.
Posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 19:21:45
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, you consider this thread civil? » Dinah, posted by TofuEmmy on November 8, 2004, at 17:26:41
> Making fun of majority "ruling party" groups is a bit different than, for instance, making a racist joke.
While I understand that argument in terms of hiring and admission policy, I must say I don't find it convincing in terms of politeness and mutual regard.
Posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 19:22:30
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, you consider this thread civil? » Dinah, posted by Sad Panda on November 8, 2004, at 8:44:01
Posted by Toph on November 8, 2004, at 19:40:42
In reply to I am who I am. » Toph, posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 19:18:36
> And this isn't even on my list of self improvements.
I thought I asked what your motivations for being so invested in civility here, not that you should improve anything. You express yourself well. You are who you are and I have appreciated all of your conversations with me. Sorry I asked a personal question.
Posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 19:51:27
In reply to Re: I am who I am., posted by Toph on November 8, 2004, at 19:40:42
I'm sorry. I concentrated on the part about your brother. I was generally appalled at "mischief making" among youngsters my age (my friends generally exerted positive peer influence). Especially when the mischief involved hurting others, as I all too commonly found it did as a child. I am vastly heartened by the greater kindness and tolerance I see among my son's friends.
I just care passionately about things like this, that's all. So does my son. You might call it civility, I think of it as something completely different than mere civility rules, although I generally refer to it as civility in keeping with the wording of this site. I don't think I have the words for it.
Posted by Sad Panda on November 8, 2004, at 20:12:20
In reply to No (nm) » Sad Panda, posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 19:22:30
I have great difficulty with the concept that people whos political leanings are pro-war also have feelings that are easily hurt with mere words.
Cheers,
Paul.
Posted by Toph on November 8, 2004, at 20:14:09
In reply to Re: I am who I am. » Toph, posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 19:51:27
No need to apologize, the brother reference was sort of a message that you be less concerned about something you obviously care a great deal about. I remember a few times you have expressed some concern for Bob when he is under a barrage from disgruntled Babblers. He never seems to share much. I appreciate that you have.
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