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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 62 to 86 of 104. Go back in thread:
Posted by JohnV on February 22, 2003, at 22:04:47
In reply to Blocks---and Please Be Civil policies, posted by JohnV on February 19, 2003, at 7:28:14
It seems most don't want to talk of compromise, a sollution, or finding a "third way". No wonder wars break out...nobody is prepared to "seriously" open to a wealth of different thoughts. All's I asked is for us to step outside ourselves once in awhile...walk in others and different shoes and footsteps.
Yes...I have lost my faith, again. John. See more>>>>>EVERLAST
What It's Like
We've all seen a man at the liquor store beggin' for your change
The hair on his face is dirty, dread-locked, and full of mange
He asks a man for what he could spare, with shame in his eyes
"Get a job you ****ing slob," is all he replies
God forbid you ever had to walk a mile in his shoes
'Cause then you really might know what it's like to sing the bluesMary got pregnant from a kid named Tom that said he was in love
He said, "Don't worry about a thing, baby doll
I'm the man you've been dreaming of."
But 3 months later he say he won't date her or return her calls
And she swear, "God damn, if I find that man I'm cuttin' off his balls."
And then she heads for the clinic and
she gets some static walking through the door
They call her a killer, and they call her a sinner
and they call her a whore
God forbid you ever had to walk a mile in her shoes
'cause then you really might know what it's like to have to choose
I knew this kid named Max
He used to get fat stacks out on the corner with drugs
He liked to hang out late
he liked to get shit-faced and keep the pace with thugs
Until late one night there was a big gun fight and Max lost his head
He pulled out his chrome .45, talked some shit, and wound up dead
Now his wife and his kids are caught in the midst of all of this pain
You know it crumbles that way
at least that's what they say when you play the game
God forbid you ever had to wake up to hear the news
'Cause then you really might know what it's like to have to loseThen you really might know what it's like...
Posted by beardedlady on February 23, 2003, at 7:17:01
In reply to Forget it...I shouldn't have expected more..., posted by JohnV on February 22, 2003, at 22:04:47
John,
I have bruises on my virtual forehead from banging it into this virtual wall.
beardy
Posted by NikkiT2 on February 23, 2003, at 10:04:40
In reply to Forget it...I shouldn't have expected more..., posted by JohnV on February 22, 2003, at 22:04:47
I'm sorry.. I gave you my point of view, and was open to a reply... giving my opinion does not mean that I am not open to discussion.
Nikki
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 23, 2003, at 10:30:22
In reply to Re: Would rather... » JohnV, posted by NikkiT2 on February 22, 2003, at 8:35:29
NikkiT2,
You wrote,[...I don't understand, if someone is unhappy by this site being here...it is easier to walk away and find someplace else...].
When I was a child in the late 40's, there was a dept. store that expelled black people from their lunch counter. I witnessed them being harrased and clubbed by police because they refused to leave and demanded to be allowed to eat at the counter. I heard the manager yell at the black people to [...why don't you go to another lunch counter, your just a bunch of trouble makers...]
I saw one beaten women rise up off the floor and said back to the manager, {...I am a justice maker, not a trouble maker... I have a right to eat here just as much as the white people do...].
The dept. store refused to allow black people to eat at the lunch counter and there was protest and the dept. store closed.
Some people put justice above the easier way, which would be to go to another place.
Lou
Posted by Dinah on February 23, 2003, at 10:34:32
In reply to Lou's response tp NikkiT2's post (1a) » NikkiT2, posted by Lou Pilder on February 23, 2003, at 10:30:22
But Lou.
They aren't the same thing at all.
One is racial discrimination.
The other is disagreeing with Dr. Bob enforcing civility guidelines within his site.
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 23, 2003, at 10:47:09
In reply to Re: Lou's response tp NikkiT2's post (1a) » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on February 23, 2003, at 10:34:32
Dinah,
You wrote,[...they are not the same...one is racial descrimination, the other is disagreeing with Dr. Bob enforcing civility guidlies to this site...]
I read here that there was a poster protesting the [injustice] of a poster being expelled. the poster implyed that the expulsion did not fit the offense. It was the [injustice] that I percieved as the protest. the poster was expelled for 32 weeks , which the protester wrote as being [unjust].
In the example that I describes, the manager of the store was [...enforcing the law...] for racial segregation was the law at that time. The protesters wanted the law changed. The poster here advocates that the [laws for this board ] be changed.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 23, 2003, at 11:03:41
In reply to Re: Lou's response tp NikkiT2's post (1a) » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on February 23, 2003, at 10:34:32
Dinah,
You wrote,[...they are not the same...]
It is my understanding that there are at least two protests here on this thread. One is the disagreement with Dr. Bob over civility issues , but the other is about anti-Semititic language , here
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 23, 2003, at 11:07:38
In reply to Re: Lou's response tp NikkiT2's post (1a) » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on February 23, 2003, at 10:34:32
Dinah,
Another protest here is that a poster contends that Dr. Bob's [civility guidlines]tend to {ostrcize}people. The [civility guidlines ] envoke an expulsion of 1,2,4,8,16,32,64...weeks, which the poster indicated to him/her amounted to [ostricism].
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 23, 2003, at 11:16:43
In reply to Re: Lou's response tp NikkiT2's post (1a) » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on February 23, 2003, at 10:34:32
Dinah,
Another poster wrote here,[...too heavey - handed...re-think polict toward us...]
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 23, 2003, at 11:32:03
In reply to Re: Lou's response tp NikkiT2's post (1a) » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on February 23, 2003, at 10:34:32
Dinah,
Below is a link to a post here that exibits a poster's concerns. I thought that it could be revisited for further discussion relevant to this discussion.
Http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20030221/msgs/202540.html
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 23, 2003, at 11:42:20
In reply to Re: Lou's response tp NikkiT2's post (1a) » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on February 23, 2003, at 10:34:32
Dinah,
Below is another link to a post that coud be relevant to this discussion.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20030221/msgs/202738.html
Lou
Posted by Dinah on February 23, 2003, at 11:47:00
In reply to Lou's response to Dinah's post (6) » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on February 23, 2003, at 11:42:20
I see you see this as a matter of justice.
I don't. I happen to like the civility rules. I happen to like civility in general, and I have no particular problem with consequences for actions. Particularly when those consequences are well spelled out and warning is given.
We'll have to agree to disagree here.
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 23, 2003, at 12:04:34
In reply to Lou's response to Dinah's post (6) » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on February 23, 2003, at 11:42:20
Friends,
Justice is much more than making a body of rules and applying punishments for breaking them. If that is all there was to {justice}, then the slave codes of colonial America and West Indies could be looked at as [just].
One of the foundational componants of {justice} is to look at the laws in the particular body , or code, and ask if they are in any way, arbitrary, caprecious or descriminatory. Next, would be to examine if they are well-defined, which means not [overbroad] or [far-reaching]. Next, do the laws create favoritism. Next, are they applied equally. Next, is there due-processs to contest.
This is not all that needs to be questioned.
Lou
Posted by Dinah on February 23, 2003, at 12:20:10
In reply to What are the componants of justice?, posted by Lou Pilder on February 23, 2003, at 12:04:34
That was not my intent.
Posted by stjames on February 23, 2003, at 13:35:18
In reply to What are the componants of justice?, posted by Lou Pilder on February 23, 2003, at 12:04:34
What do any of this have to do with this board ?
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 23, 2003, at 16:03:39
In reply to Re: What are the componants of justice?, posted by stjames on February 23, 2003, at 13:35:18
SJ,
You wrote,[...what does this have to do...?].
The purpose of the admin. board is to discuss:
A) Problems with the site
B) Ideas for improvment
This discussion has many posts from those that are giving ideas for improvemeny and percieved problems with the site.
Civility is one part of the discussion, and it is my deep conviction that by having an admin. that could listen to the members of the community as to their grievences, then constructive changes could be made to improve the civilty. I believe that the aspects that I and others here, have discussed so far, and there are much more, could be a viable means to [improve] civility.
The example at the lunch counter that I used created [better] civility in the community. Now all public establishments are open to all.
In another situation around that time, my mother drove us to Sunlight pool in Cincinnati. Sunlight Pool is the world's largest recirculating swimming pool in the world. The attendent at the gate refused to allow us in because one of my friends with us was black.
Later there was protest and the operators of the pool [changed] their policy and admitted all people and the pool is still open, still a great place to swim. One of the posters here had posted about [change]. And change can be accomplished when the community has a venue to discuss problems and ideas for improvement.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 23, 2003, at 16:13:38
In reply to Re: I'm sorry if my answer upset you. » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on February 23, 2003, at 12:20:10
Dinah,
You wrote,[...I'm sorry if I upset you...it was not my intent...]
Well, that would depend on your conception of what constitutes being [upset]. Being [upset] could be on a continuim from a brief outrage to profanity directed to the other person and beyond.
Regardless of whether you did or did not, I understand that it was not you intention to do so.
Best regards,
Lou
Posted by JohnV on February 23, 2003, at 22:41:20
In reply to Re: What are the componants of justice?, posted by stjames on February 23, 2003, at 13:35:18
> What do any of this have to do with this board ?
It has to do with the fact it is takes many wheels to make this board run. One half of this board is Dr. Bob's creation of it; the other half is the community who make it up. Without either, this board would not exist.
Posted by NikkiT2 on February 24, 2003, at 7:59:50
In reply to Lou's response tp NikkiT2's post (1a) » NikkiT2, posted by Lou Pilder on February 23, 2003, at 10:30:22
Lou,
I don;t see how your example of abuse against black people is connected tot his.
Are you suggesting that Dr Bob is racist?? As far as I can see, he deals with every person the same. If you are uncivil, you get a warning, if you do it again, you get a ban. What ever your race, religion etc.
Posted by NikkiT2 on February 24, 2003, at 8:03:43
In reply to Re: Okay, okay Lou, posted by Dinah on February 23, 2003, at 11:47:00
WOuld you prefer that we were open to any kind of abuse and incivility here??
I have an internet stalker. he is highly abusive about me, and has managed to follow me to most internet sites I use. This is one of my only havens from him.
If he were to find me here, do you think he has the right to say what ever he wishes about me??
Civility, to me, is something that should be practiced by everyone. I feel safe here (where I don;t elsewhere). That is down to Dr Bobs rules.
I, personally, would leave this site and never return if Dr Bob were to allow un-civil posts.
Nikki
Posted by NikkiT2 on February 24, 2003, at 8:06:40
In reply to Lou's reply to stjames post » stjames, posted by Lou Pilder on February 23, 2003, at 16:03:39
Lou.
What you are posting about is about peoples rights. Do you believe that people have a right to be un-civil?? Do you honestly believe that if I were to say nasty things to you / about you, I have a right to do this??
I don't believe this. I believe we all have a right to be protected.
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 24, 2003, at 8:08:31
In reply to Re: Lou's response tp NikkiT2's post (1a) » Lou Pilder, posted by NikkiT2 on February 24, 2003, at 7:59:50
NikkiTs,
You wrote,[...I don't see how your example...]
See:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20030221/msgs/203060.html
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 24, 2003, at 8:16:39
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to stjames post, posted by NikkiT2 on February 24, 2003, at 8:06:40
NikkiT2,
See:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20030221/msgs/203108.html
Lou
Posted by NikkiT2 on February 24, 2003, at 8:36:33
In reply to Lou's reply to NikkiT2's post-(SJ) » NikkiT2, posted by Lou Pilder on February 24, 2003, at 8:16:39
Lou,
Those posts do not answer my question as to whether you think those being un-civil really have a right to do so. A simple yes or no would help me out here.
I have read all the replies on this thread, and still do not understand. Sorry for this.
I would like to know whether you believe I have a right to be un-civil to you if I so wish.
Nikki
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 24, 2003, at 8:47:25
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to NikkiT2's post-(SJ) » Lou Pilder, posted by NikkiT2 on February 24, 2003, at 8:36:33
NikkiT2,
One answer would be,[it depends].
See:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20030221/msgs/203062.html
Lou
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