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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 70. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Phil on July 22, 2002, at 7:31:13
Lou can tell an incredulous story of Nazi's quoting Jesus but a Christian following their beliefs can't post his beliefs about Christ being the only way?
Lou has also tried to recruit off of this site.
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 22, 2002, at 8:23:44
In reply to Dr Bob, posted by Phil on July 22, 2002, at 7:31:13
Phil,
When I told of Dr. Morganstern's discussion with me, I posted what Dr. Morganstern said. The Rider in Nazi regaillia was not the jesus that Kiddo has referred to. The Rider in Dr. Morgenstern's story to me did not confine all jews to hell, or damn them, as Dr. Bob has said. The Rider was rescuing the jews in the death camp , not damning them.
Now I realise that a lot of the christiandom churchs teach the "christ is the only way" dogma, butI have experianced that there is a way that welcomes all to the City of Peace even jews who do not accept the jesus that Kiddo is writing about.
Now if a "christian folowing their beliefs" ,as you have posted, can not post that their religion is the "only way" on this board, then I must commend Dr. Bob for his stance because to allow one religion to be favored here or anyware else, would demean all others.
Lou
Posted by SandraDee on July 22, 2002, at 9:48:23
In reply to Lou's response to Phil's post » Phil, posted by Lou Pilder on July 22, 2002, at 8:23:44
I think Lou feels like this because his is the only story being supported. He can post anything he wants about "Dr. Morgan..." but we can't post what Jesus said. So, he has all the freedom of speech and support, while the "Christians" (or at least this Christian) don't feel like I have free speach nor support. Interesting how the Faith board caused a sort of split, like a new pastor to a church.
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 22, 2002, at 10:08:39
In reply to In my opinion..., posted by SandraDee on July 22, 2002, at 9:48:23
SandraDee,
I believe that you *can* post what jesus said. But I did not see a biblical referrence to what Kiddo posted. Kiddo just posted that the religious leaders of Israel attributed the works of the jesus that Kiddo was referring to , to the devil. Did I miss a referrence by Kiddo to a biblical book with chapter and verse in that post?
Lou
Posted by Dinah on July 22, 2002, at 10:12:25
In reply to In my opinion..., posted by SandraDee on July 22, 2002, at 9:48:23
I as a Christian, albeit an unorthodox one, have posted about my strong beliefs many times, without censure. And without comment from Lou either.
I think the point is to abide by Dr. Bob's rules. And I think the trouble is that Dr. Bob hasn't fully explained his rules and their rationale, using examples to ground them in the day-to-day reality of life on this board.
And I have asked Dr. Bob to do this, so that there will be fewer ill-feelings in the future. If there is a post that a number of posters feel is beyond the line, and he does not feel that the post is beyond the line, he should explain his reasoning, just as he explains the reasoning when he gives a please be civil. If he wishes to educate us on the behavior expected on this board, he should issue Please be Civils (with explanation), Thanks for Being Very Civil (with explanation), and OK, This One May Be Borderline But I'm Not PBC'ing It (with explanation). OK, the acronyms for those are cumbersome. Does anyone have some shorter ones?
But he has repeatedly said that he does his rebukes publicly so that people can learn what is expected on this site. Clearly at this time that is not sufficient. So, it might be worth an investment of his time to point out other examples as well.
Posted by Dinah on July 22, 2002, at 10:14:26
In reply to Lou's response o SandraDee's post » SandraDee, posted by Lou Pilder on July 22, 2002, at 10:08:39
If that is what is bothering you, Lou, I could cite the biblical reference. I happen to have a bible handy...
Posted by Dinah on July 22, 2002, at 10:34:26
In reply to Re: Lou's response o SandraDee's post » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on July 22, 2002, at 10:14:26
I am using the version from Matthew, as it is my understanding that that is the gospel that is most "Jewish" in nature (in other wise, it is believed that it was written by a person raised as a Jew who chose to follow Jesus.
Matthew 12:22-24 (The NIV Study Bible)
Then they brought him a demon-posessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see. All the people were astonished and said, "Could this be the Son of David?" But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "It is only by Beelzebub, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons."
I checked this translation against the translation of eminent scholar Hugh J. Schonfield and find that they generally agree, although Schonfeild's version is slightly less wordy.
Hope this helps.
Posted by jane d on July 22, 2002, at 10:36:42
In reply to In my opinion..., posted by SandraDee on July 22, 2002, at 9:48:23
> I think Lou feels like this because his is the only story being supported. He can post anything he wants about "Dr. Morgan..." but we can't post what Jesus said. So, he has all the freedom of speech and support, while the "Christians" (or at least this Christian) don't feel like I have free speach nor support. Interesting how the Faith board caused a sort of split, like a new pastor to a church.
I'm not sure of Bob's reasoning and I second Dinah's request that he clarify it. Personally, though, while I think you should be able to post about your beliefs and what they mean to you, I'm not eager to read here about how I'm sure to burn in hell for not sharing them. Now nobody ever actually said that but I felt it was just below the surface in some posts and the closer it gets to being said the more uncomfortable I get. I know that this is a belief of some people's religion but I'd rather not read about it here any more than I think my friends here really want to read my views on the origins and purposes of religion. It doesn't mean that I'm not interested in your beliefs or that I don't think we can discuss mine but I think parts of it, those parts where we make conclusions about each others beliefs and ultimate fates, should probably stay unstated.
Jane, hoping you keep posting
Posted by Phil on July 22, 2002, at 10:39:28
In reply to In my opinion..., posted by SandraDee on July 22, 2002, at 9:48:23
Ain't that the truth. Esp. new pastor's. hahahah
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 22, 2002, at 10:52:05
In reply to Re: Biblical reference » Dinah, posted by Dinah on July 22, 2002, at 10:34:26
Dinah,
The issue in question is that Kiddo did not post biblical citation with her post, but in another post later.
Lou
Posted by Dinah on July 22, 2002, at 10:55:55
In reply to Re: Biblical reference » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on July 22, 2002, at 10:52:05
Is that important, Lou? After all, she did not know that you wished her to cite chapter and verse when she wrote the initial post. So no offense was intended. I think that perhaps a bit of forgiveness and caritas may be called for here. But that's just my opinion, and is not even a request to you, and certainly not an order.
Best wishes. I must be off.
Dinah
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 22, 2002, at 10:58:37
In reply to my own opinion » SandraDee, posted by jane d on July 22, 2002, at 10:36:42
Jane,
I am ipressed with your answer to "nobody actually said that....
You see, the referrence to Beelzebub, to me, goes much farther than what is actually said, like what your answer says.
Now I will post ,if you request, what it says beyond what it says, if you ask me to do so. And at the same time, I wil make the disclaimer that Kiddo may not have meant what I will say at your request.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 22, 2002, at 11:09:57
In reply to Re: Biblical reference » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on July 22, 2002, at 10:55:55
Dinah,
I have forgiven Kiddo. Could you clarify what you meant by ...forgivness needed here...?
If you clarify that , then I will be better able to understand your post and be able to discuss with you better .
Thanks,
Lou
Posted by Phil on July 22, 2002, at 11:13:05
In reply to my own opinion » SandraDee, posted by jane d on July 22, 2002, at 10:36:42
There are Christians that don't preach hellfire all the time. I don't necessarily want that either. I also don't know about who's post you were referring to when mentioning that we were getting close to hearing that speech.
But if you're going to have a faith board and think it's going to be simple, it's not.
When the subject of the faith board came up; I thought to myself, as long as I don't have to moderate it.
We're going to need some guidelines before we all get blocked. On other boards, it's clear what incivility is. Religion is a whole different matter.
Posted by Dinah on July 22, 2002, at 11:28:28
In reply to Lou's response o Dinah's post, posted by Lou Pilder on July 22, 2002, at 11:09:57
I'm sorry Lou, but I really must get to work. Perhaps I missed the forgiveness and loving-kindness towards Kiddo in your prior posts. I will review them later...
In general, I just wish for a gentler tone from all. But again, that is not a request to you or anyone else. Just a wish, a wistful dream...
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 22, 2002, at 11:51:41
In reply to Re: Lou's response o Dinah's post » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on July 22, 2002, at 11:28:28
Dinah,
I beleive that if you could clarify to me what you think forgivness entails for me to understand your posts to me. If you could do that, then I will have a better undestanding of the post from you to me that I am responding to and I could be better abled to discuss with you .
Thanks,
Lou
Posted by Phil on July 22, 2002, at 12:11:51
In reply to Re: Lou's response o Dinah's post » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on July 22, 2002, at 11:51:41
I'm guessing here but it seems she's asking if you had forgiven kiddo in words or just in your heart?
I didn't know kiddo needed forgiveness.
Posted by Dinah on July 22, 2002, at 12:12:01
In reply to Re: Lou's response o Dinah's post » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on July 22, 2002, at 11:51:41
Lou, It is unkind of you to tease me away from duties with such a profound question. I really MUST get my work done.
But since you engaged my interest, I must agree that definitions of forgiveness and loving kindness probably differ among different people. How fascinating an insight. I'm not sure it belongs on the Admin board but...
Tell you what. I will think while I do the work I really MUST do about what I consider the definition of forgiveness and loving-kindness to be. And in order for me to look over your posts to Kiddo, I guess I really need to know what your definition of the two concepts are. And since I'm so busy right now, and since there are sooo many posts, it would be a huge kindness to me if you would post links to the posts where you exhibit forgiveness and loving-kindness in this exchange. Of course, you are under no obligation to do so, just as I was under no obligation to do the archive search you requested that I do. It would just speed up the process quite a bit. It could take me days to come to an understanding of how our definitions differ and search through the posts. And I really just don't have days right now. I'll certainly work on it during my bouts of insomnia though.
Thank you for the profound insight. But please, I'm going to get in trouble if I don't do some work.
Posted by kiddo on July 22, 2002, at 12:16:48
In reply to Re: Biblical reference » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on July 22, 2002, at 10:52:05
> Dinah,
> The issue in question is that Kiddo did not post biblical citation with her post, but in another post later.
> Lou
Lou-This isn't the issue *at all*. Dr. Bob said nothing to me on the board or elsewhere about this topic.
Kiddo
Posted by Dinah on July 22, 2002, at 12:20:26
In reply to Re: Lou's response o Dinah's post » Lou Pilder, posted by Phil on July 22, 2002, at 12:11:51
>
> I didn't know kiddo needed forgiveness.
Oh dear Phil. I hope that I didn't imply that I thought Kiddo had done something concrete to need forgiveness. I certainly didn't mean to.But when someone is hurt by what someone said, that is their feeling. It doesn't matter if another person would be hurt by the same thing. Feelings aren't facts. So when Lou says that he has forgiven Kiddo, it is not a reflection on Kiddo at all, but a statement of his own internal state.
I've never quite understood when people become offended when someone forgives them, even if they think they did nothing wrong. It means that harmony has been restored in the relationship, in the heart of the person who was hurt, and what harm could there be in that?Again, I meant no offense to anyone.
Posted by Phil on July 22, 2002, at 12:27:36
In reply to Re: Lou's response o Dinah's post, posted by Dinah on July 22, 2002, at 12:20:26
Dinah, That wasn't 'aimed' at anyone. I didn't realize kiddo had done anything to be forgiven for.
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 22, 2002, at 12:29:19
In reply to Re: Lou's response o Dinah's post, posted by Dinah on July 22, 2002, at 12:20:26
Friends,
I was married previously and my then wife participated in suspicious behavoior that indicated , to me, that adultery was commited. There was a divorse, and someone asked me if I had forgiven her. My answer was that I had forgiven her, but I did not have to stay married to her to forgive her.
Lou
Posted by Dinah on July 22, 2002, at 12:43:21
In reply to Re: Lou's response o Dinah's post, posted by Phil on July 22, 2002, at 12:27:36
I am just walking on eggshells right now, Phil. I didn't mean anything in particular by my post other than trying to not add to the conflagration, while also trying to be of some help. A very fine line to walk, and it's making me a bit edgy.
Pdoc appt today, maybe a useful med change. And maybe a new job too, if I don't get to work. :)
Posted by SandraDee on July 22, 2002, at 15:25:13
In reply to my own opinion » SandraDee, posted by jane d on July 22, 2002, at 10:36:42
Not that I have or would ever say my road is the only road. But I do believe in the Bible, whole-heartedly. That doesn't mean I understand all of it, just means I believe it all to be true, by faith. I have gay friends and I have alcoholic friends. I would never tell either of them they are "SINNERS AND GOING TO HELL", although I do pray for them. God is AMAZING. (okay so this might have been better on faith board) I would never have told Lou he is going to hell because he is of Jewish beliefs. I'm not a preacher type and I don't like being center stage. In fact, it takes all I can to post what I do post. I just don't appreciate that he is allowed to preach his ROAD, but when the bible (well, other parts of the bible - since Lou is also quoting Bible verses, whether he realizes it or not) is quoted it's *sometimes* flagged as wrong. If that's the way it is many other things should have been flagged, or Christian Bible quotes should have not been flagged. :) Hope that helps give ya an idea of who I am, can't speak for the others. Like Dinah says, (paraphrasing) who's to say what God can/will do?.
Posted by kiddo on July 22, 2002, at 15:29:11
In reply to Thanks Jane » jane d, posted by SandraDee on July 22, 2002, at 15:25:13
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